Curse

Fril Estelin · Apr 23, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Note to everyone: sorry for the long "tirades" of my replies, I don't want to hijack this thread by imposing my point of view, feel free to disagree. This thread is all about discussion, not about setting the perfect security rules in stone. Everyone can contribute!

(edit: may be I shall define what "contribute" means, rather than having to see lots of +1 coming?)

I'll try my best to make it live so that people can benefit from it, but it's ultimately a community effort. Security FTW!

Esan · Apr 23, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Are you using enough boldface text to scare yourself silly?

No, thanks, I play GW on wine and don't care what the Windows sploit of the day is.

Darkobra · Apr 23, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Crap Cleaner is a brilliant tool. Glad you added it up there.

For those that don't know, it's a brilliant cache cleaner and registry tool cleaner. Anything you've ever uninstalled in the past tends to have registry keys left behind. Crap Cleaner can find those and delete them for you.

enxa · Apr 23, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Added as new question 7:

7) Do you regularly clean your browser and application data (such as caches, saved passwords)? (weekly)
Look at the very usefull tool CCleaner for this job.

More: does every one know the command "Clean Private Data..." in the Help menu of Firefox? You can use it every time you close Firefox by going into the Options, then Privacy and at the bottom in the "Private Data" category you'll find the "Always clear my private data when I close Firefox" (which can be tweaked with the button next to the option).

No i dont use external programs for cleaning data.

Firefox is set to always clear private data when it closes though, dont want my brother starting it up and finding out that im a regular visitor of gay-serbia.com ... lol

Tyla · Apr 23, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

No to all of them.
My computer won't let me do anything without it crashing all the time anyway, I had to get a laptop for usage on the internet.

Chthon · Apr 23, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

I might add a "1.5) and a hardware firewall/router serving as a hardware firewall?" (And, if it happens to be a wireless router, have you disabled the wireless capabilities or done X, Y, and Z to secure it?)

Quote:

3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)

I recall reading an article that compared various anti-spyware programs and discovered that none of them catch much more than 60% of what all of them together are able to catch, and most caught much less. The ultimate conclusion was that you need at least 2 anti-spyware programs to get decent coverage, and even then you'll have gaps.

I also have to admit that I only have one and I rarely run it. In my arrogance that "oh no, I am NOT a dumbass user who gets spyware" I'm not as careful as I perhaps should be.

Quote:

4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)

Windows update on manual. One experience with "Windows Genuine Advantage" deciding that your copy of windows isn't legit can provide more than a life-time's worth of aggravation. I'm also not a huge fan of the .NET framework updates that break each other if installed in the wrong order.

Quote:

7) Do you regularly back-up your sensible data?

"Sensitive data" perhaps? None of my self-generated data is "sensible."

Good advice though.
I might also add that they very best way to protect extremely sensitive data is not to put it on the computer in the first place.

Some other odds and ends:

A few folks have mentioned Firefox. I have to agree. I suppose Opera's fine too. IE just has waaay too many unpatched vulnerabilities.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Would "Stop going to the porn sites" help as well?

I know you meant that as a joke, but it is a serious point, though it would perhaps be better rephrased as "don't visit sites that have a high likelihood of being malicious" or "don't be a dumbass user."

It would be interesting to try to compile a resource on how to know which sites to stay away from. Not a simple list, mind you, but something that captures the method to determine if a site is untrustworthy.
Some sort of anti-phishing advice probably belongs here too.
It's maybe too much to ask of some users, but, "Are you keeping track of your start-up group?" I would strongly recommend:
- First, find out which processes your computer is running on startup and what they do.
- Second, eliminate the unnecessary ones.
- Third, keep a list of the start-up processes that you've OK'ed.
- Fourth, each time you install something new, check to see if it added itself to the start-up group, and either remove it or add it to your list.
- Fifth, periodically check the start-up group for new entries that aren't on your list. Alarm bells should ring if you find one.
Not only does this give you a heads up when anything short of a rootkit installs itself, but it also tends to greatly improve your PC's performance by removing a lot of crap that sucks resources without doing anything useful for you.

Lastly, GOOD THREAD!

Fril Estelin · Apr 23, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

The NCsoft security FAQ is fairly good and have some basic security advices:
http://www.plaync.com/us/support/doc...ml?p_faqid=993

Quote:

How do I protect myself from viruses?

Unfortunately, there is no way to get 100% protection from all past, present and future viruses. Security companies are constantly playing catch up, as computer criminals change their code in old viruses to make them undetectable, and invent new ways and code structures to get into your system. All you can do is your very best to protect your computer and your private information. Some ways to protect yourself include:

Always have updated anti-virus software actively running on your computer.
Before installing or running executable files (i.e.: joke.exe files or mini games) sent to you -- even by your friends -- ask yourself, "How badly do I want to see this? Is it worth it?"
Run virus scanning software on any files you are about install.
Update your operating system often with the latest updates concerning security or vulnerability issues.
Acquire back door scanning software that can detect and remove spyware and/or Trojans. Spyware is programming that is put in someone's computer to secretly gather information about the user and relay it to advertisers or other interested parties, including hackers.

What else should I be aware of?

One of the features in Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, and XP is the ability to share your files with other computers. Whether these computers are on a local area network or on the Internet, you should always make sure you are very careful about file sharing. If you have enabled file sharing, you should always make sure to password protect your hard drives.

You should NEVER go away from your computers (also known as "afk," for "away from keyboard") while your character is in the game world. People that play in game rooms should be especially careful of this. Even turning your back for a minute or dashing away while a "trusted friend" watches your game can have disastrous effects in some cases.

Additionally, if you play in game rooms, you should be especially careful of people that watch over your shoulder when you log into the game. It is possible that someone could watch you type your login name and password and then guess what it is. This could happen even if they don't see the actual characters you type.

SUMMARY

How do I protect my computer system from being hacked or accessed by others without my permission?

Install a firewall on your system.
Install a port monitor.
Never accept files from people you do not know and trust.
Avoid downloading programs from unfamiliar sources.
Avoid downloading programs from sources that do not provide some way of reaching them should something with the download go wrong.
Install a virus scanner; keep it active on your system and ensure you always have the most up-to-date virus scanning files.
Run the virus scanner on files received prior to installing or executing them.
Never give your account password (or any other passwords, for that matter) to anyone.
Change your account password at least once every three months.
Use a complicated password structure (number, extended characters and mixed case) at least seven characters long.
Use caution when giving out your instant message ID(s).
Use caution when accessing instant message and chat programs.
Do not name your characters the same as your user name or login ID.

The Meth · Apr 23, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

1-4. No, I just do a full update of everything and a scan once every week or so. Do have a firewall, of course (who seriously wouldn't?)
5. Yes, thats the best protection: not doing stupid things.
6. On things that actually matter to me, yes. I will tell you though, my password for half the sites I have registered for is 12345, and I honestly don't care if you got into them.
7. Yes
8. I don't see how thats related to computer security, thats closer to redundancy in case of computer failure, but yes I do.

Something to add: if you are using firefox, download the noscript addon. It will block all scripts on a site (which malicious sites could be using to potentially harm your computer just by visiting it) and can easily be temporarily or permanently toggled on and off for specific sites in case you need to access something. Its very quick, easy to use, and non-intrusive, which are very important qualities to me.

Edit: Also do most of the things Chthon listed, along with the "In my arrogance that "oh no, I am NOT a dumbass user who gets spyware" I'm not as careful as I perhaps should be.". I am obsessive-compulsive over things that like to load at startup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Apparently not on this website

Nice of you to check

Fril Estelin · Apr 23, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

6. On things that actually matter to me, yes. I will tell you though, my password for half the sites I have registered for is 12345, and I honestly don't care if you got into them.

Apparently not on this website

Quote:

8. I don't see how thats related to computer security, thats closer to redundancy in case of computer failure, but yes I do.

It's not if you think in "classical" terms. Nowadays "availability" is seen as an important property, if your data is "unavailable" due to a hard disk crash or a server DDoSed, you can't do much.

Quote:

Something to add: if you are using firefox, download the noscript addon. It will block all scripts on a site (which malicious sites could be using to potentially harm your computer just by visiting it) and can easily be temporarily or permanently toggled on and off for specific sites in case you need to access something. Its very quick, easy to use, and non-intrusive, which are very important qualities to me.

Agree, but it requires to check the scripts disabled because from time to time some sites don't work anymore.

@Chthon: thanks for the excellent advices, I'll try to factor them into information (I'll mention phishing and in-game scams). (P.S.: I haven't forgotten our discussion, just put it on hold)

Tarun · Apr 23, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Great post, honestly. Though in my opinion you omitted one of top notch security/preventative. The best preventative/security is knowledge/education. If you don't know about something your downloading or how it works, you most likely should not download/run it.

I hope you don't mind if I share some knowledge and experience.

The absolute best form of keeping your computer safe in two easy steps is:

Never give out any information of any kind out online.
Only download files from trusted websites (the manufacturer) and use SSL whenever possible for registrations.

1. Sure, to some this may sound like overkill, but you don't know who it is you're talking to. Any e-mail address can be spoofed with ease. No company is going to ask you for your password(s) or other personal information. If you have to log in to access support, then they already have access to all of the information they need. Another good saying is, "If it's too good to be true, it usually is." It's common with scams or even offers for freebies.

The same goes for online friends. Even if you know that person in reality, you should never disclose any information online. Not even IM network protocols are secure. However, there are exceptions. Pidgin uses encryption such as OffTheRecord which helps to keep people from spying on you. But that won't stop a keylogger.

For example, your password reminder question is about your favorite movie. Someone in your guild chat or IM list strikes up a chat with you about movies, then talks about favorites. You may not notice how easy it is to slip and disclose the answer to your email's secret question.

I have seen people on these very forums who claim to be "white hats" in terms of security. Claiming they know how to hack your MSN/WLM with your email address. (Yet when challenged they can't do it or provide any information that proves their claims!)

2. As far as downloading from trusted sources such as the manufacturer, I can present a perfect example as of this post just see my starring item below*.

There are also downloading websites such as FileHippo, Download.com and several others that are very trustworthy for downloading programs. McAfee SiteAdvisor is also a good way to check and see if the website is safe, but beware of false positives, like how they said that WinAntiVirusPro.net is a safe website.

Many manufacturers/developers and download websites are offering MD5 hashes to help you verify that you are getting an unaltered download. This is extremely beneficial and I honestly hope to see it catch on.

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Above all else, you should do your best to keep your computer secure and up to date. This can be done by checking for updates manually every Patch Tuesday (the second Tuesday of each month when Microsoft releases Windows Updates) or by using Automatic Updates. Be sure you have installed all of the hotfixes and that you keep all the software on your computer up to date.

There are alternative browsers that can also help to prevent malware. Firefox and Opera, because they do not use ActiveX. Maxthon and several others are just IE Shells which change the appearance but use Internet Explorer's core for browsing.

Updating to Internet Explorer 7 is a great idea. Even though this version has broken several programs that rely on the IECore (McAfee for example) when IE7 was first released, it really was a good thing. Sure, that might sound like a wild thing to say, but think about it. This forces these companies to update their programs which in turn enhances your security.

Internet Explorer 7 fixed a multitude of vulnerabilities and issues. Because Internet Explorer is integrated into Windows itself, by updating from Internet Explorer 6 to version 7, you're updating the IECore and many other components that your computer heavily relies upon. Internet Explorer 7 has a very useful addon called IE7Pro which enhances the IE7 browser by adding more functionality and security.

From the IE7Pro website:
IE7Pro includes Tabbed Browsing Management, Spell Check, Inline Search, Super Drag Drop, Crash Recovery, Proxy Switcher, Mouse Gesture, Tab History Browser, Web Accelerator, User Agent Switcher, Webpage Capturer, Flash Block, Greasemonkey like User Scripts platform, User Plug-ins and many more power packed features. You can customize not just Internet Explorer, but even your favorite website according to your need and taste using IE7Pro.

When it comes to Internet Explorer, I highly recommend using SpywareBlaster (also for Firefox) and IESpyAds. Completely avoid using any toolbars in Internet Explorer because they attach to your Internet Explorer, and your Windows Explorer which also uses the IECore. So if you have problems that make your computer crash or behave oddly, it can often be a toolbar.

The first post in this topic mentions using CCleaner and using it weekly. There is an option to "Run CCleaner when the computer starts" (Found at Options > Settings) and you may want to check "Close program after cleaning" (Found at Options > Advanced).

As mentioned in the first post, use a secure password. I have heard that having no password on your computer can actually be better than having one. This is because most people simply use "password" or a very easy to guess/crack password. Even using the password hint to plainly state the password. Yeah, that's real secure.

I'm pretty much rehashing much of what I have already stated in my wiki about PC Security.

If you'd like to read my wiki article, you can do so by visiting:
http://wiki.lunarsoft.net/wiki/PC_Security

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*Microsoft has released Service Pack 3 for Windows XP to OEMs on April 21st, 2008. This was leaked onto several torrent sites. Many people are scrambling and downloading these torrents and using them on their computers. THIS IS ILLEGAL! If anyone remembers AutoPatcher and how they received a takedown notice, this is a similar issue. Redistributing hotfixes and service packs released from Microsoft violates the EULA.

Microsoft has released SP3 to TechNet/MSDN Subscribers on April 22nd, 2008. A lot of people think they received the official final version, but they have not. The Softpedia link does NOT have the final English package. Softpedia has labeled it as final, but it is Build 3311. They aren't the actual/official RTM released package.

If you have to get a "free" service pack from Microsoft from a torrent/torrent website and not download.microsoft.com, then common sense tells you that it's NOT AVAILABLE YET.

When Service Pack 3 has been officially (and legally) released, you will be able to get it directly from Microsoft's website!

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@Inde - try Firefox Safe mode. If you still encounter issues try a clean install of Firefox. Delete your profiles after backing up your bookmarks.

Tarun · Apr 23, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This is an urban myth, most AV companies know how to deal with other "serious" AVs (I hate the magazines with "free security suites" based on free AVs which add nothing to what other AVs can do). It's not necessary at all, unless you have very sensible stuff on your comp, but it works.

As Ctb said, Firefox is a good first step (I'd also advise plugins like NoScript) but you need to be very carefull all the time, but not paranoid. And be careful about email addresses, they sometimes look very similar.

(today in the BBC news, they announced that UK Internet Fraud amounted in 2007 to 500 millions pounds)

Actually, fenix is correct. Having more than one anti virus is very well known to cause a multitude of issues. The two (or more) tend to conflict with each other, especially when a virus is found that both know of. It's not a pretty sight and it does cause more problems than it's worth.

Fril Estelin · Apr 23, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

I hope you don't mind if I share some knowledge and experience.

You wrote a brilliant post, really nice! But I wonder whether it'll be understandable to the security "layman". As for Ctb, I'll try to factor out the best into the OP. I can already see disagreements with the host file

It was bound to happen, as the technics of security is an obscure domain spawning so many situations.

(Re 2 A/V, I'm not convinced in general, in particular as I run 2 A/Vs myself, but that does not seem like an important topic.)

Saraphim · Apr 23, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

1) Yup

2) Yup, and boy does it annoy me when I get lag in the middle of a big fight.

3) Both, haven't really come across anything better than those two.

4) I don't use Auto updates as it can be pretty annoying to have Microsoft reboot my machine if I'm running long renders overnight. So I have it set to inform me of updates and download, then I'll run them.

5) Pretty much. Certainly can't think of any that are potentially dodgy. I rarely download free apps unless they're well known and useful.

6) I favour the 'headbutt the keyboard' approach. I'd throw the cat at it, but I don't have one,

7) Yup

8) Hmm.. I haven't had great success with optical media over the years, so I tend to back up to an external drive.

9) Not that much I suppose. There's only the two of us and our machines are networked and protected. I have been known to lecture the odd friend about it, usually after the event.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 23, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

has anyone tried the ghost hardrive anti virus software?

i dont remember the name but that is the newest thing and as of right now you can't mess up your computer as long as you clean out the hardrive everyonce and a while.
if something goes wrong clean the ghost drive and laugh

Chthon · Apr 23, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

As for Chthon.... I can already see disagreements with the host file

It was bound to happen, as the technics of security is an obscure domain spawning so many situations.

Don't think I mentioned anything about the hosts file, did I?

----

@Inde: It seems that you don't like giraffes. Oh the poor giraffes!

Fril Estelin · Apr 23, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Don't think I mentioned anything about the hosts file, did I?

----

@Inde: It seems that you don't like giraffes. Oh the poor giraffes!

Sorry, it was Ctb!

~ Dan ~ · Apr 23, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?
Indeed i do.

2) If so, are they automatically and regularly updated? (daily to hourly)
Automatically which is generally daily.

3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)
Yes (been meaning to check out that Spybot, too..)

4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)
Windows Automatic Updates here.

5) Do you make sure that applications you install can be "trusted" (whatever this exactly means, e.g. you read reviews in a professional magazine or a reliable website, a knowledgeable friend recommended it to you, it's a paying app with customer support, etc.)?
See for example the list of 3rd party app that Anet lists:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...-game_graphics
Yes, i make sure they can be trusted. However, on the rare occasion i need to download something that can't be found on a trusted website, i take the risk. I have faith that the Trojan (if any) will be found.

6) Most importanly, do you have strong passwords and do you make sure not to use the same passwords for different site/applications?
To test your password strength, try these sites:

I don't use very strong passwords (such as () instead of O and the like) - keep them simple so i can easily remember them, but always with letters/numbers. However, i do have different passwords for different things.

7) Do you regularly clean your browser and application data (such as caches, saved passwords)? (weekly)
Look at the very usefull tool CCleaner for this job.
Used to clean cookies and things everyday, but have been getting lazy.. still run every scan possible on a weekly basis. TuneUp Utilities > CCleaner.

8) Do you regularly back-up your sensible data? (monthly)
Never have done.

Answers bolded.

DarkFlame · Apr 23, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. I regularly delete my "sensible data"
9. I kick them off and install/upgrade whatever they lack for them.

Alleji · Apr 23, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I have an antivirus and a firewall that update itself. No need for a spyware checker or the "trusted software" crap if you know what you're doing and don't crawl around warez sites.

Snow Bunny · Apr 23, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

NOD32 covers me for everything virus/firewall wise (although, haven't needed a firewall...), updates itself all the time etc etc.

I agree.

NOD32 is probably safer than the security used for nuclear weapons.